tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6450854270080513022.post2111615848507774938..comments2023-05-05T02:20:39.892-07:00Comments on Cryptic Language and Vague References: Pioneering paths and pitfallsOriginal Mohomiehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05220176833570828412noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6450854270080513022.post-3611461709032400422010-11-28T17:05:15.103-08:002010-11-28T17:05:15.103-08:00I think I've been fairly consistent on my stan...I think I've been fairly consistent on my stance of the feasibility of marriage for gay individuals. It is working for me, and I am grateful for it. It hasn't been and still isn't always easy, but I am lucky enough to find happiness within my marriage.<br /><br />I definitely don't advocate marriage as a cure for homosexuality. Doing so would be dishonest and irresponsible. While I don't outright discourage marriage homosexuals, I don't outright encourage it either. I believe each has not only the agency, but also, hopefully, the wisdom to know what is best for their own situation. <br /><br />I don't think it is wise for many. As a married man, I hope that doesn't sound condescending. I frankly was lucky/blessed to find a wife that is quite remarkable, as you would probably agree. I was set up on a blind date the first week of the semester. It is a miracle that our marriage has worked, but I'll gratefully take it!<br /><br />I didn't tell my wife about my attractions before we married. Hell, I couldn't even admit them to myself. I put her in an unfair situation by not telling her first, and strongly encourage full disclosure before marriage. She may still have married me, I'm not sure, and neither is she. She said she isn't sure she had the maturity to understand and deal with the accompanying issues a mixed orientation marriage brings. <br /><br />Some may never have a high enough level of attraction physically and emotionally to the opposite sex to marry, and forcing it would be unfair to both spouses. For those individuals, I respect their agency to choose celibacy or to choose a partner of the same gender. <br /><br />Choosing whether to marry or who one should marry is such a personal and life altering decision, that I don't pretend to know what is best for anyone but me. Even then, had I been more self aware when I was 22, I can't say with any level of confidence which choice I would have made.Bravonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02762204502534599107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6450854270080513022.post-86515294145674293512010-11-27T23:56:18.795-08:002010-11-27T23:56:18.795-08:00Bravone, I think you may have misread my comment. ...Bravone, I think you may have misread my comment. It was a bit of a jab, but it was a jab at those who try to blame people like you for pursuing happiness in your way for the misperceptions and self-hatred others create. I think someone who pursues your path and tells others they should be able to do it easily or just as well as you <i>does</i> assume some responsibility for the consequences of that portrayal, but I don't think anyone rightly deserves the <i>blame</i> for somebody else's inability to cope.Original Mohomiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05220176833570828412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6450854270080513022.post-18803386450722672532010-11-27T23:25:18.556-08:002010-11-27T23:25:18.556-08:00O-Mo,
I haven't blogged much or read others b...O-Mo, <br />I haven't blogged much or read others blogs lately, but I did skim this a while back. The following partial paragraph still evokes the same emotion in me, so I guess I'll give you my thoughts about it. <br /><br />I suspect hearing "well, you were the exception to the rule" or "your example led to suicides of those who never knew you, never bothered to ask you about the realities of your situation or whether you believed all people should do it the way you did it, bought into a version of your story promulgated by those who thought you would fail, and consequently despaired when they didn't become straight within a year or two like they presumptuously thought you had" is highly unlikely to quell their gratitude for their decision to determine their own path to truth and happiness."<br /><br />The part that bothers me the most is the implication that my seemingly "successful" marriage might lead others who aren't able to attain it to commit suicide. While I suppose it could be true, I think the same could be said for those who see seemingly "successful" same-sex relationships, either in real life or media, and end up taking their lives because they can't find happiness in a same-sex relationship either. <br /><br />I think it is unfair to lay the burden of responsibility of one taking his life at the feet of anyone else. It probably wasn't exactly what you intended to portray.Bravonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02762204502534599107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6450854270080513022.post-87961192322804630842010-11-11T12:37:54.926-08:002010-11-11T12:37:54.926-08:00Understood. And it's fair.
And yes, forgiven...Understood. And it's fair.<br /><br />And yes, forgiven, and hopefully you'll forgive those who have been chewed up and spit out by gay culture and trying to date men who hyperventilate and caution others in their specific demographic against trying it because they've seen too many people get withered away by it before coming back to the faithful fold to be open to a possible future mixed-sex relationship but happily single until then and finding light and joy in denying the 'natural man' even though it's hard at times.<br /><br />That's not to dismiss your concerns or Carol Lynn's. It's just to acknowledge the existence of unique circumstances and occasional exceptions and caveats, particularly among certain groups or common life experiences and beliefs.<br /><br />I'm preaching to myself as much as you, here. I have tended to forget certain things, or what it was really like, and I'm trying to bring that voice back to see if I really, rationally disagree or if it comes down to, "Given certain beliefs and circumstances..."Original Mohomiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05220176833570828412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6450854270080513022.post-72748185509332383872010-11-11T11:15:25.537-08:002010-11-11T11:15:25.537-08:00You'll forgive those of us who have been chewe...You'll forgive those of us who have been chewed up and spit out by the intsitution of mixed-orientation marriage if we hyperventilate from time to time on the topic. I'm not going to do that now.<br /><br />Instead, I'll just quote what Carol Lynn Pearson said recently. She's seen hundreds if not thousands of these marriages over the years. In her <a href="http://mormonstories.org/?p=1091" rel="nofollow">Mormon Stories interview</a> she responds to a question about what she would say to a young woman who came to her for advice about marrying her homosexually-inclined boyfriend or fiance. Pearson's answer was clear. She says something like "Knowing what I know, with all of the experiences of my own life and all of the experiences I've seen in the lives of others, I cannot recommend that you marry a gay man. The risk is just too great." The interviewer presses her for excreptions and caveats, but she shakes her head and repeats, "The risk is too great."<br /><br />(This starts at 37'45" in part 4 of the <a href="http://mormonstories.org/?p=1091" rel="nofollow">interview</a>.)MoHoHawaiihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15086670779804942122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6450854270080513022.post-82083528865714453402010-11-11T10:40:14.312-08:002010-11-11T10:40:14.312-08:00In response to public and private comments, let it...In response to public and private comments, let it be known I _do_ believe a mixed-orientation marriage is not just a marriage with a challenge like any other. I do believe it's a challenge above and beyond what other marriages entail. I believe it has all the inherent issues of any other marriage, plus some pretty basic and complex intimacy navigation beyond what other couples have to deal with, even the ones with intimacy issues, because it's not just about the relationship but also (some say primarily) about one partner's needs for intimacy with members of the same gender.<br /><br />The people I know who have done it without it being an extremely rocky road were in therapy or support groups or involved in things like JIM for years before they got married or before they really stabilized in their marriage. And for every one of those steady group or JIM attendees who has gotten married or stabilized, I know at least two others who are still taking the steps, still working at it and not sure if they'll ever be ready or who are having a really tough time in their marriage. I just believe it can be done, and happily so, by at least some people.<br /><br />And maybe my two-to-one ratio only includes those who have been pretty steadily "trying" for several years, casually off the top of my head. It doesn't include those who either marry more hastily (a few) or who "give up" on therapy rather than staying in it beyond a year or few (very, very many), which makes the discrepancy much larger. Of course, it can always be said that if they only tried harder, longer, they might have done it. Maybe that's true in some cases. Everyone's gotta weigh their options and how much they believe it's their only or best option. <br /><br />To be frank, I get sick to my stomach at the thought that people in my life might rejoice if I announced I was dating a girl just because she's not a man. It truly makes me feel ill and is probably by far the most significant thing making me want to run screaming from the whole idea. In other words, I want to tell them not to start thinking this means I'm about to play it straight and to get used to the idea that I'm going to find a great guy to settle down with because to be honest, that's still by far the more likely option, if I'm to be with anyone at all.Original Mohomiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05220176833570828412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6450854270080513022.post-17594502314808943182010-11-10T23:26:38.826-08:002010-11-10T23:26:38.826-08:00Marriage between two heterosexual people is a gamb...Marriage between two heterosexual people is a gamble as well. Here are the 2009 stats:<br /><br />•Number of marriages: 2,077,000<br />•Marriage rate: 6.8 per 1,000 total population<br />•Divorce rate: 3.4 per 1,000 population (44 reporting States and D.C.)<br />Source: Births, Marriages, Divorces, and Deaths: Provisional Data for 2009, National Vital Statistics Report, National Center for Health Statistics, Division of Vital Statistics.<br /><br />I don't know how these stats compare with those of MOMs and SSA partnerships, but they illustrate that successful hetero marriages require the same level of commitment as any lasting relationship.<br /><br />The choice is very personal, and I believe the chance for success and satisfaction in any relationship rests more on the individuals involved than on the sexual orientation of the couple.<br /><br />You're right about being honest and open from the beginning, no matter what kind of relationship you choose. No secrets, no surprises, a serious commitment, sacrifice and hard work. However, referring back to another of your recent blogs, no one ever promised it would be easy, only that it would be worth it. I can attest to that.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11768108025134892093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6450854270080513022.post-42009305919651834382010-11-10T20:09:47.783-08:002010-11-10T20:09:47.783-08:00I keep no scorecard in my head. I will become conc...I keep no scorecard in my head. I will become concerned when overzealous folks on both sides use failures of individual relationships to pursue an agenda. I think some gay men are fit to be in relationships with women, while some are not. In the same way some straight men are fit to be in relationships with women, while some are fit to be neutered. =]Laurenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02452126809752182340noreply@blogger.com